Omnirig behaviour

[RudyOtten]

Hi Simon,

I'm using now since a few months SDR-Console and I'm very happy with the program, I'm using the latest version 3.3 with the latest build from December last year.

I have 2 issues, one related to the hanging of the program, but I think I know what is causing that, so maybe that has been fixed.

The other issue is related to using SDR-Console in conjunction with programs like Bandmaster or CW-skimmer, meaning programs that make use of
Omnirig and I see that more people have issues.

So I did some debugging, and to make it easy reproduceable I did not use any of these programs (Bandmaster or CW-skimmer) but just using the Omnirig client program that is standard installed if you install omnirig from dxatlas (ver 1.2)

I recorded this om my PC using OBS studio, so hopefully this helps.

What you see is the following :

When just started the frequency of the omnirig is in sync with SDR-console, when you make changes of the frequency in the receiver box of say 1000 kkz the freq is changing also in omnirig as the center frequency of the VCO also changes. However if you make changes of say 100 khz than omnirig does not track that change at all. When yo change the center frequency at the bottom of the waterfall, omnirig is always tracking that.

It looks that SDR-Console is sending the center frequency to omnirig and not the actual frequency used by the receiver.

Also what is even more important to be fixed is that when I set the requested frequency in omnirig client and I press the set button, SDR-Console does change to that frequency, however omnirig then declares the TS-2000 rig as being "off-line". The only way to fix this is just open the dialog box
and as soon as you click on OK, everything is in sync again.

Maybe you can now repeat these steps by looking at the attached video and fix this.

And hopefully for all people that have reported issues.

My radio is a SDR-play duo in case that is important.

Regards,

Rudy

[Max]

The other issue is related to using SDR-Console in conjunction with programs like Bandmaster or CW-skimmer, meaning programs that make use of
Omnirig and I see that more people have issues.

Rudy

Hi Rudy. Just to say that I use Omnirig, including with CW Skimmer (only the trial version - now expired) but also with other programs that use Omnirig, mainly for me at the moment Log4OM, and in general I don't have any issue with it. it tracks very accurately for any frequency change even down to 1Hz increments.

Two questions:

What is the monitoring program that we can see in your video? I think you said it's the Omnirig client program, by which do you mean this?

https://www.dxatlas.com/omnirig/BetaTest.txt

I ask because I'd like to try reproducing what you see.

Second question: What exact issues do you have with Omnirig not working correctly and with which programs do you have the problems?

73

Max

[RudyOtten]

Good day Max,

Thanks that you are willing to look into this issue

I assume you looked at the video and hopefully could see the issue.

The program that I used to test the Omni-Rig interface is called client.exe
and you can download it from https://www.dxatlas.com/omnirig/ it is listed under Tools

I'm using Windows 10 and for the serial cable I use VSPE and as mentioned before, I have the latest
SDR-Console V3.3 build December 2023

What I notice is that SDR-Console reports back the center frequency of the VCO and not the actual frequency.

So when you start SDR-Console and say Bandmaster (or CW-Skimmer) all is OK as they sync up initially.
When you than for instance change to another band 40m -> 80m all is OK as SDR-Console also will change the
center frequency of the SDR-Play duo RX.

However if you click on a station to tune to it, the RX freq changes (because of te offset added) but the center frequency stays the same and hence you get the time out.

But as mentioned, with this Client.exe program from Omni-Rig you can easily test it.

Hope this clarifies the situation.

Regards,

Rudy

[Max]

Good day Max,

What I notice is that SDR-Console reports back the center frequency of the VCO and not the actual frequency.

So when you start SDR-Console and say Bandmaster (or CW-Skimmer) all is OK as they sync up initially.
When you than for instance change to another band 40m -> 80m all is OK as SDR-Console also will change the
center frequency of the SDR-Play duo RX.

However if you click on a station to tune to it, the RX freq changes (because of te offset added) but the center frequency stays the same and hence you get the time out.

Regards,

Rudy

OK thank you Rudy. By way of encouragement, I can say that I have used CW Skimmer in the past and it has worked perfectly with SDRC. Just to be totally clear on use with SDRC, with Skimmer it only tunes the RX in the way it is designed to work, so you select the station on CW Skimmer and it then changes the RX frequency. As far as I recall (and I think that Simon mentions this somewhere) it does not work the other way around.

I use the Hermes Lite 2 SDR. My VSP is VSP Manager by K5FR.

I guess you checked out the CW Skimmer config page fully and followed the setup instructions very closely on the SDRC help pages? I do remember CWS can be a bit problematic if the instructions are not followed exactly. See here if you did not already check it out.

https://www.sdr-radio.com/cw-skimmer

In the meantime I will try and test with client to see if I get exactly same result. Sorry, bit tied up here with other stuff but will do it when I can and report back. Also Simon may have a comments to make.

73

Max

[RudyOtten]

Hi Max,

I did read the instructions and yes its clear that the intention is that CWS is driving SDRC and not the other way around.

But as mentioned before, it looks that it has nothing to do with CWS or Bandmaster, what in my opinion is causing the issue is that
when you adjust the frequency via Omni-Rig and the change is big enough so that the center freq of the VCO is changed then all is OK, but with a small change
the offset into the I/Q signal is changing and that is not reflected back to Omni-Rig.

See the 2 screenshots I attached.

As you can see in the file called CWS-After-Tuning.png in CWS the RIG is flagged off-line after you make a small change in freq.

I'm a programmer myself and if I would had the source code I could fix it

Regards,

Rudy

[Max]

As you can see in the file called CWS-After-Tuning.png in CWS the RIG is flagged off-line after you make a small change in freq.

Regards,

Rudy

I can only say that I know for sure that when configured correctly SDRC plays perfectly with CWS. I am thinking there must be an issue somewhere in the CAT setup?

Can you please send two more screengrabs. One of Omnirig setup screen and one of the CWS settings from SDRC. Or just look at mine for reference (attached). Of course the VAC that you allocate in SDRC for CW Skimmer must be unique only to Skimmer in the SDRC CW Skimmer setup panel. Must not also have audio output on SDRC set to the same VAC.

Note the VSP should be set as pair. As you can see mine are COM11/COM12.
Can I also suggest that you try VSP Manager from K5FR instead of VSPE? We know that VSP Manager works very well with SDRC. See here:
https://k5fr.com/DDUtilV3wiki/index.php/VSP_Manager

Needs to run in Compatibility Mode:
https://www.sdr-radio.com/SerialPort#VSPManager

I find VSP Manager always works perfectly with SDRC.

Another question. Why in your screenshot is SDRC in Wide U mode? You would want it set to CW narrow mode surely for use with CWS? Of course this would not affect what we are talking about here with the CAT control, just interested to know? Maybe just left like that in error?

73

Max

[RudyOtten]

Good day Max,

Here another reply with answers to your questions/requests.

My setup is almost the same as you have, I only use Com1 and Com2.

I can tell you that it has nothing to do with CWS or Bandmaster or the Omni-Rig setup.

It is the feedback from the combination of SDRC and SDRplay-Duo that is causing the issue.

The reported frequency when not being the center frequency does not match, hence that the program is flagged as offline.

Do you know when Simon would have time to look into this?

I'm asking as I currently try to evaluate CWS and bandmaster and I will not buy the license if these programs don't work together with SDRC.

Thanks for your time.

Rudy

[Max]

It is the feedback from the combination of SDRC and SDRplay-Duo that is causing the issue.

The reported frequency when not being the center frequency does not match, hence that the program is flagged as offline.

Do you know when Simon would have time to look into this?

I'm asking as I currently try to evaluate CWS and bandmaster and I will not buy the license if these programs don't work together with SDRC.

Thanks for your time.

Rudy

Hi Rudy

I have asked Simon to come and take a look although I now he's very tied up at the moment with another issue so not sure when that will be.

Just one last request. Please get a copy of VSP Manager from K5FR and install according to Simon's instructions that I linked earlier. Then create a totally new pair of COM ports (say 7 and 8) and try again. I could be wrong, but I still feel this is related to the CAT side of it. I know that the COM port side of things can cause issues for many people and I know changing to VSP Manager has solved CAT problems for others in the past.

I can't see any reason why this issue would be specific to a particular SDR as functionally they are similar for this particular application, and I can say for sure I've had Skimmer working perfectly in the past. I'm fairly certain I've had it working with RSP2Pro but I can't be100% sure.

I am yet to try the Omnirig Client. I will try and do that later today if I get time or tomorrow latest.

73

Max

[RudyOtten]

Hi Max,

I would like to try out VSP Manager, however there is a not telling me that I can not obtains this as I'm "just"
a fanatic Ham radio listener, and I do not have a license. See below the line on the website from https://k5fr.com/DDUtilV3wiki/index.php/VSP_Manager

Please Note! If you're not a licensed Amateur Radio Operator don't bother to apply. There are no exceptions.

Lets just wait until Simon has a chance to look at it, I'm sure he understands my explanation regarding the VCO center freq and the offset in the I/Q data buffer.

Rudy

[Max]

I can't see any reason why this issue would be specific to a particular SDR as functionally they are similar for this particular application, and I can say for sure I've had Skimmer working perfectly in the past. I'm fairly certain I've had it working with RSP2Pro but I can't be100% sure.

I am yet to try the Omnirig Client. I will try and do that later today if I get time or tomorrow latest.

73

Max

OK Rudy I think I have found the root of this issue. Sorry, it's taken me a little time to fully "get it" as I didn't have the time to sit down and look at it but now I have. I have had time to try the Omnirig test program and now I can see what is going on. TO be clear this is nothing at all to do with the RSP SDR.

What you see when you say the frequency does not change unless it's a large change in freq......

What you are actually seeing is the centre of the SDRC "span" being sent to CWS from SDRC. This exactly as expected as it communicates to CWS the centre frequency of the band of IQ signals being sent to skimmer. Basically it sets the centre of the tuning range for CWS (which matches the LO on SDR). To prove it's not rig dependent I ran my test setup with no SDR started and saw exactly the same results as you on the test program. This is normal and expected for the comms TO CW Skimmer. What this shows is that part of the setup is working correctly.

Your problem is that when you sent Freq.A back to SDRC it reports the rig is offline. I do not see this in my setup. I can send Freq A back to SDRC from the test program and it sets the exact freq on SDRC perfectly, with or without the SDR started. Unlike your setup the rig (SDRC) is not reported offline.

What this tells me is that you COM ports are working fine in one direction TO CWS but not in the other direction FROM CWS (or from the Omnirig test program in this case).

I think that a likely explanation is that your two COM ports 1&2 were not created as a pair or there is just some problem with the pairing maybe or just virtual port pair generally.

In the first instance I suggest you delete the two virtual com ports in VSPE and re-create the pair again. Maybe to be sure, choose pair of numbers well away from COM1 & 2. Maybe create COM ports 9/10. Then try again using those ports instead.

If you still see the same issue I suggest you get a copy of COM0COM and try that. That too has been used very successfully with SDRC. Indeed I've tested it myself and it works fine. I just prefer VSP Manager but seems you can't get a copy of that.

When you setup the ports in COM0COM it's important to set it up with these boxes set as shown (sorry, not as shown but as indicated by the arrows):

com0com.jpg (52.61 KiB) Viewed 1245 times

I am pretty sure this will fix your issue. There is no issue using SDRC with CW Skimmer. Quite a few other people on here use it. I very sure it's purely down to getting the COM ports sorted on your setup.

Good luck.

Max